Sunday, March 02, 2014

Massive loop hole: Suburban consultation online survey flawed...by Jim Thomas

It has been bought to my attention that there is a massive loop hole in the suburban consultation review (online survey).

Individual drivers or certain groups (serving a particular agenda) are currently able to submit multiple responses, rendering any result flawed.

By not submitting an email address it is possible to submit multiple responses using a false name, which I have done on multiple occasions, leaving a neutral response, remembering to clear cookie data after each attempt. On each occasion I have been sent back a different ID in reference.

Your response ID is ANON-BW95-BCRD-2.

Your response ID is ANON-BW95-BCG9-C.

Your response ID is ANON-BW95-BC9W-V.

Your response ID is ANON-BW95-BC9S-R. 


We have had reports that certain groups of drivers have been sitting in cab shelters and caf├ęs with iPads and smart phones, encouraging other drivers to make multiple entries. 

This can't be justified under any circumstances.
It has to be one badge, one vote. Responses to a consultation, have to be seen as fair and aboveboard, otherwise any result would be corrupt. 

I therefore suggest, all representative trade organisations urgently contact TfL and demand the review response be withdrawn, until the loophole has been rectified. 

I have written to my trade representatives and have asked them to submit a complaint to TfL on my behalf and that of our members. I strongly urge every driver to do the same. 

In its present form, it is a massive threat to the knowledge of London and the working practices of the licensed taxi driver for both suburban and all London Drivers.

Typical incompetence again, on the part of TfL.
Any published results could legally be challenged in its present form and would be a complete waste of our licence fee budget, which could have been put to better use (new ranks, enforcement etc.).

It's like the Private Hire Licensing Act all over again!
An act that was and still is, brimming full of loop holes.
An act signed off by our main representative groups at that time, who obviously hadn't taken the content of the act too seriously, which since has had dire consequences, devastating the Licensed Taxi industry over the last decade.

QUESTIONS THAT REALLY NEED ANSWERS:
Why have TfL put this consultation on-line?
Why wasn't the consultation response request posted to each licensee?  
Why wasn't the consultation about the Cabbies Cabinet put on-line?
Does TfL know the loop hole exists?

We will of course offere TfL the space on this blog to answer the above questions

23 comments:

Anonymous said...

Another colossal bungle by TfL.

Any result is now worthless!

Gerald Coba said...

More incompetents from TfL, Or was this designed to being manipulative.
I wouldn't put it past him, especially over the way they dealt with the Cabbies Cab an issue.
This has to be scrapped immediately and replaced by postal ballot

Anonymous said...

Another shocking cock up from Daniels.
This man goes from one disaster to another.
Surely he must be replaced soon
There has to be a bus garage out there who will give him a job

Zule said...

Can just see all those 41 clubbers sitting there filling in their forms
Time after time after time

Anonymous said...

A formal complaint has been sent to LT&PH this morning (Monday 3 March) and a response has already been received from them at 10:54am.

TfL/LT&PH may be fault here but the immaturity of some taxi drivers has to be held to account also.

Are these taxi drivers ‘Fit and Proper’?

Should their Motor Cab licence be review?

Anonymous said...

Already a done deal
Yellows will be allowed to work in town at busy times and code reds at Airport.
This will justify selling new licences
Review is just to make us think we have been consulted, it smoke and mirrors again like the Olympics and the M4 bus lane.

It's already been signed off...

John. said...

Wondered why we haven't seen any of the LCDC lately, too busy filling in bogus reviews

Anonymous said...

If I was you I'd be more concerned about the deals done with ph not one statement from McNamara or Davis Do you really think yellow badge drivers are the problem was there really 3600 yellow badges working in town There was a few but look what happens when you take your eye of the ball ph ranks are coming done deal ring up the ltda or lcdc Remember oddly is on the board We can fill in the consultation forms in but they mean sod all this was agreed months ago

Anonymous said...

I see the Collaborators are just ignoring the issue, telling their zombie followers just to carry on completing the phone

Anonymous said...

Anon11.47 Immaturity of some cab drivers,fit and proper? TFL are only renueing selected peoples bills now anyway, or did you not know that.

Anonymous said...

Even if this was exclusively a one badge one vote referendum without the public involved and with no hidden agenda it would still be a grossly unfair system.

I am the first to agree that every driver has the right to express their opinion, don't get me wrong, but just take a step back and look at the facts.

Even if we take the grey areas out of the mix and just assume that all yellow badges want nothing but total access to Central London and Heathrow there can only ever be just shy of 3700 votes for the motion.

Even if 1 in every 6 Green badges voted they would have the Majority.

Now, despite the fact that all the ridiculous proposals of yellow badges working within Central London without being examined and licenced for it have been quashed before the consultation was published, many comments made on these forums suggest that a lot of drivers have not read the consultation carefully and are unaware that a lot of the nonsense suggested at the workshops has been dismissed and are still outraged at the original proposals.

This could be as many as 2 in every 6 Green Badges.

This means that all yellow badges could be outvoted 2 - 1 just by drivers who aren't actually aware of what they are actually voting on!!

It's hilarious that some drivers feel the need to submit multiple votes on a cause that was lost before it was started!!

Tfl must be cracking up watching all these excited yellow badges running around like dogs with two todgers thinking they are going to get something for nothing, when all the while only a third of GB votes will create such an enormous win margin that anything near an even spread of votes would be so suspicious they would be forced to launch an investigation!!


The only threat to anything comes not from TFL (To F***ing Lazy), but from the Government and their suggestion to the Law Commission that sectors within Licencing Authorities Boundaries should be abolished!!!

Funny innit? We don't get to vote on that one!!

Wilfred M said...

Another set of questions for the GLA enquiry about to be held into TfL and the. Mayors handling of the cab trade.

Well done to all those who campaigned so long and so diligently, RMT and many individuals who refused to join the conspiracy of silence (now replaced by squeals of anguish!) caused by the taxi engagement policy and it's divisive intent which only served the interest of TfL and not us.

Another PR stunt from the goons at Windsor house & Palestra.

Anonymous said...

TFL have done their deal,GB should worry about the Law Commission writing Plying For Hire out of the gives PH the pick up off the street.Not enough GB,s working nite,s use YB,s or we lose the lot.Dont listen to the unions with a axe to grind.Think of our future because addi lee datacars and uber are.We have to change because we are dinosaurs.

LCY Len said...

The whole thing was a farce from the off.Giving cab drivers a say in anything is always a waste of time, because what suits one this hour ,wont suit him in the next.That said, even if they could be trusted to express a definite opinion, any voting that allowed green badges to vote on yelllow badge issues would always result in a negative way for the yellow badges because of as anon 10.27 said if only a small fraction of them bothered to get involved they could outvote yellows easily.
In any case the online consultation was designed to be flawed so that when it was challenged tfl could stall any decisions until after the law commission comes out and adjust them to suit themselves.

To suggest that ALL yellow badges think that they'll be getting anything out of this, just shows how greens live in a fantasy bubble and have no idea how things work in the suburbs.Most of the drivers I know get a nosebleed if they go past mile end and certainly have no desire to go anywhere near the west end.

From those I have spoken to, most want just to be allowed to do the Hackney extension and have an island rank at Victoria park when they have events there.Also they would like the books permanently closed and only opened up after so many years when natural wastage has occurred and the limit has been lowered.

This whole witch hunt has been on since Davis's stooge thought he was missing something at Brushfield Street and screamed blue murder to com cab, tfl and anyone else who might listen.Davis saw an opportunity to actually win a fight after getting battered by the mini cab trade for years.The widespread paranoia engineered by the lcdc has turned green badges into a bunch of plastic policemen who feel it's their right to persecute yellow badges.

We only want to earn a living and that living has been eroded by tfl with the unrealistic amount of drivers they've let out and the lcdc with their insistence that the radio firms do not give yellows work anywhere but in their licenced areas, even though the accounts might be lost through lack of coverage. We don't want anything for free and are happy to work for any extensions we might get.

Greens need to realize, that WE are NOT the real threat to their living (that's only in the heads of the loudmouth minority)the REAL threat drive Mercs and Prius' and take work from the prime locations.
Stop them and we'll all have half a chance.

I'm Spartacus said...

LCYl Len,

Please don't put us all in the same category as Grant Davis , he's just a bandwagon merchant.

If anyone ACTUALLY reads the consultation most of want he is making a campaign over has in fact been ruled out by TfL.

Your bang on the money about the PH threat but that's too big an issue for such as the LCDC which is now small potatoes since Alan Fleming departed.

Anonymous said...

Once again another proper sensible comment from lcy Len. Instead of looking at childish stupid comments from some yb and GB.

Anonymous said...

We have 100 drivers in hackney we don't need more drivers from the east we need work

Anonymous said...

Len you are bang on the money Davis has not got the BALLS to take on PH Ask any green badge what has he done .?????????????????????? Keep thinking he's done sod all yet he keeps telling all the lads at the flyer join up jog on Davis go join mason

LCY Len said...

Thing is Spartacus, probably ninety percent of greens have absolutely no idea of what the suburbs are about to them they're just places they go under sufference. Because of that they believe the scaremongering propaganda spouted by the trade rags. You only have to read some of the posts on here to see that the poison has been swallowed. I know that this is only a small representative of the trade, but the indifference of the majority let's the vociferous minority get their way.
Even though Davis no longer has the ear of mason up the yard , I know that he pester's Chapman regular and I wouldn't doubt he has the numbers of several other people in positions of influence. An enforcement officer told me , he only got the ids in because mason got sick of him whinging down the phone and it was easier to give him what he wanted raher than argue.
My concern is that he may whine himself a compromise or two that will damage the suburbs even further.
We only want to earn a living, we don't want anything for nothing. So by the same token , don't believe that all yellows have worked in town or that they want to.

Anonymous said...

If it was a vote , it would surely be pro rata , but it's not , tfl know what they are doing , Nothing IMO just going thru the motions and finishing the consultation they started ,nothing will change , I doubt they will even close the books or at the very least suspend them , but once again they have succeeded in setting green against yellow , yellow versus green

Anonymous said...

You're so right Len!!

I'm a Sutton driver. I was born in Sutton, went to school in Sutton, and now, believe it or not, I want to work in Sutton.
Just because some power that was decided in 1965 that Sutton Surrey should become part of Greater London and created the London Borough of Sutton, I had to go to Penton Street (as it was way back then) and do the London Suburban Knowledge.

I'm sick to death of being told that I really want to work in London (Central). Every one assumes you get a yellow badge coz you can't hack a Green Badge.

I've yet to meet a Suburban Driver who has ever wanted to work in town. If you wanted that you'd have done the Green like they did!!

But somehow they can't see all we want Tfl to do is to protect our livelihoods where Greens dare not tread; but others just believe we want a piece of their pie! (I for one wouldn't work in town if they gave everyone a Green badge tomorrow, and I suspect 90% of yellows feel the same way!!)

That's 300 that might try it if they got a chance. But the fact is that even those would only try out of desperation and never WANTED to be forced to work out of the area they chose to learn.

Everyone I've spoken to believes that TFL have done the right thing with the suggestions they have already quashed.....because they were far fetched and unhelpful!!

Let's hope some sense prevails in the 'other comments' boxes on the consultation and the ignorant percentage of drivers give is a break and a little respect and don't just F**k it up for us because they can!!

mr timothy claypole said...

knock em out len ,
you should run for the tfl job !!!!


LCY Len said...

Anon from Sutton, you are the exact type of suburban cab driver I'm speaking about. We are happy working in the places we grew up in and was doing ok at it before tfl opened the floodgates in their hunger for profits.
We cant turn back the clock, but if the books were closed we'd have a chance in a few years, to maybe get somewhere near what it was like before.

Mr Claypole, I would probably be far too honest and sensible to work at tfl, though thanks for your faith in me. ;-)